It seems that the West adopted years of European Russophobia after the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution scared the shit out of them and built on it. The USSR was never an enemy (unless you were a greedy oligarch) from 1917 and definitely not after WW II. Deeming the Soviets (and later the Russian Federation) as 'enemy' served two purposes: 1) it externalized the class struggle within the capitalist countries; 2) it gave reason to rely on the MIC as the core of the economy, what we call Military Keynesianism.
In the context of the Second World War, the Soviet Union was definitely not Poland's enemy. As far as reports of Soviet depredations on Polish citizens, I am sure that is mostly propaganda, either from Germans or from anti-communist Americans. This is typical practice and such reports are not to be trusted. In point of fact, the so-called occupation of Poland cost the USSR resources and manpower and recovering Poland was a drain, not a benefit. Because of the political void left after German occupation, the Soviets installed Polish communists as governors, mayors, et al, and the Poles that resented them were former landlords and oligarchs. Of course they hate the Russians!
The Poles suffered under the Russians beginning in the late 18th century. Distrust and general hatred of Russia is universal in the country today. Talk to the Finns also.
Your examples are fraught with misinterpretation. The Soviets are not Czars, the Finns allied with Nazis, and the Soviets resisted Hitler’s a Poland aggression. In general, Russophobia is cultural and meaningless in any real sense. Formerly, there was a Catholic Poland and Orthodox Russia split, then a Polish aristocracy and Soviet communist split, plus a lot of malign propaganda.
The Finns attacked Russia in 1918 after a century of subjugation. Poland fought Russia in the early 17th century and temporarily controlled Moscow. But for the past 300 years the only attacks the Poles made on Russia were like the Finns, attempts to rid themselves of the Russian yoke.
You are tiresomely attempting to justify Russophobia with snippets of history. Why bother? Russophobia, like White Supremacy, has no legs. History does not necessarily predict future behavior, Soviet Russia was not Czarist Russia, and the Poles are, as usual, being stupid.
From the opening, the truth is that the USSR's military interventions were also in service of national defense, but much more vigorous than the Russian Federation's. From the beginning, the imperialist/capitalist powers tried to undo the newly created Soviet Union. As such, Stalin's paranoia was based on reality. Not only direct military attacks from the West that required defense, the Soviets supported people's revolutions all over the world, knowing that each liberated country was one less imperial vassal. An example is Afghanistan. The Soviets knew very well that the Americans were trying to regime change the Afghan socialist government and armed the insurrectionists; thus the Soviets 'invaded', not to attain territory but to prevent the American aggression.
There is an alternative possibility to the suggestion of John Merryman. But first I must say that I am surprised by this "other side" of RAND.
Europe has so long been in thrall to the US that it finds it very hard to think for itself. Just look at the pathetic sycophantic behaviour towards Trump by the current NATO Secretary General. Why have all these American bases in Europe when there is no threat? Part of the American economy (and to some extent various European countries - including the UK), depend on the arms industry. This industry requires regular wars and war threats to flourish. This military-industrial-political complex is very good at flogging its perceived threats and has proven very successful in convincing people, including politicians, of the so-called terrible dangers we are facing.
Europe has been a battleground for centuries . Russia has been invaded multiple times and survived . The body count has risen each time due to mechanised weapons . The Ukraine war is just the latest . If the resources are cut off from Europe it will have to face reality and avoid conflict . The EU is controlled by unpopular bureaucrats who are owned by the oligarchs who seem bent on complete control . Our only hope is that we are many and they are few , but until things get bad change won't happen . I see politicians , but not leaders....
Interesting. I am reminded that Ukrainian oligarchs took control of the Ukraine shortly after Independence (if not before). They were not unified as Yanukovitch was much more aligned with Russia than his successor, Poroshenko, but he was still a man who had greedily captured Soviet Ukraine's assets. The far-right Banderites are just the enforcement arm of fascist Ukrainian oligarchy. I suspect that (fascist) European oligarchs support Ukraine so zealously because they are kin to fascist Ukrainian oligarchs.
No, when Russia was down on its back from 1989-2008 it was not aggressive. But now it is, and wants to reassert direct dominance over its northeast European neighbors and indirect dominance through its nuclear threat over the rest of the European continent.
What if there is something truly deep in the psyche about all of this?
Consider that populations have been migrating West since pretty much it was Neanderthals Cro-Magnons and Homo Sapians. The original European populations are the Celts and they are pushed up against the Western fringes and shores. The languages are "Indo-European." Aryan apparently goes back to Iran.
In more recent times, it's Huns, Mongols, even Rus.
Why?
My theory is that as Europe is geographically broken up into various moderate sized regions, that are significantly the basis of the cultures and states comprising it, that it has created a situation where their various animosities could be sustained and contained along clear lines.
Western Asia, on the other hand, is far more open. So the peoples there developed far more fluid relationships, as well as demographically larger societies. So that Russia today can function as one country in a way that the EU can only dream about. So having those larger demographics, the inclination was to adventure West.
So not only is there that instinctive fear of Hordes from the East, but that boogieman keeps them from fighting among themselves as much.
Well here I am in France.
When I moved here from the dilapidated US I thought I was coming to an educated Country.
In some ways France is worse than the USA...............hard to believe.
Nothing irrational about a captured elite doing what their masters want, particularly if everyone at the table is going to get fat from all the graft.
It seems that the West adopted years of European Russophobia after the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution scared the shit out of them and built on it. The USSR was never an enemy (unless you were a greedy oligarch) from 1917 and definitely not after WW II. Deeming the Soviets (and later the Russian Federation) as 'enemy' served two purposes: 1) it externalized the class struggle within the capitalist countries; 2) it gave reason to rely on the MIC as the core of the economy, what we call Military Keynesianism.
Tell the Poles that the Soviet Union wasn't their enemy.
In the context of the Second World War, the Soviet Union was definitely not Poland's enemy. As far as reports of Soviet depredations on Polish citizens, I am sure that is mostly propaganda, either from Germans or from anti-communist Americans. This is typical practice and such reports are not to be trusted. In point of fact, the so-called occupation of Poland cost the USSR resources and manpower and recovering Poland was a drain, not a benefit. Because of the political void left after German occupation, the Soviets installed Polish communists as governors, mayors, et al, and the Poles that resented them were former landlords and oligarchs. Of course they hate the Russians!
The Poles suffered under the Russians beginning in the late 18th century. Distrust and general hatred of Russia is universal in the country today. Talk to the Finns also.
There is cultural foundation for ‘dumb Pollack’ jokes.
Your examples are fraught with misinterpretation. The Soviets are not Czars, the Finns allied with Nazis, and the Soviets resisted Hitler’s a Poland aggression. In general, Russophobia is cultural and meaningless in any real sense. Formerly, there was a Catholic Poland and Orthodox Russia split, then a Polish aristocracy and Soviet communist split, plus a lot of malign propaganda.
You forget that the Poles and Lithuanians attacked Russia as well as did the Finns. They are hardly victims of pre-Revolution Russian aggression.
The Finns attacked Russia in 1918 after a century of subjugation. Poland fought Russia in the early 17th century and temporarily controlled Moscow. But for the past 300 years the only attacks the Poles made on Russia were like the Finns, attempts to rid themselves of the Russian yoke.
You are tiresomely attempting to justify Russophobia with snippets of history. Why bother? Russophobia, like White Supremacy, has no legs. History does not necessarily predict future behavior, Soviet Russia was not Czarist Russia, and the Poles are, as usual, being stupid.
From the opening, the truth is that the USSR's military interventions were also in service of national defense, but much more vigorous than the Russian Federation's. From the beginning, the imperialist/capitalist powers tried to undo the newly created Soviet Union. As such, Stalin's paranoia was based on reality. Not only direct military attacks from the West that required defense, the Soviets supported people's revolutions all over the world, knowing that each liberated country was one less imperial vassal. An example is Afghanistan. The Soviets knew very well that the Americans were trying to regime change the Afghan socialist government and armed the insurrectionists; thus the Soviets 'invaded', not to attain territory but to prevent the American aggression.
Thank you, Patrick. You're always on the ball. And kudus to RAND for their candor.
There is an alternative possibility to the suggestion of John Merryman. But first I must say that I am surprised by this "other side" of RAND.
Europe has so long been in thrall to the US that it finds it very hard to think for itself. Just look at the pathetic sycophantic behaviour towards Trump by the current NATO Secretary General. Why have all these American bases in Europe when there is no threat? Part of the American economy (and to some extent various European countries - including the UK), depend on the arms industry. This industry requires regular wars and war threats to flourish. This military-industrial-political complex is very good at flogging its perceived threats and has proven very successful in convincing people, including politicians, of the so-called terrible dangers we are facing.
Europe has been a battleground for centuries . Russia has been invaded multiple times and survived . The body count has risen each time due to mechanised weapons . The Ukraine war is just the latest . If the resources are cut off from Europe it will have to face reality and avoid conflict . The EU is controlled by unpopular bureaucrats who are owned by the oligarchs who seem bent on complete control . Our only hope is that we are many and they are few , but until things get bad change won't happen . I see politicians , but not leaders....
Interesting. I am reminded that Ukrainian oligarchs took control of the Ukraine shortly after Independence (if not before). They were not unified as Yanukovitch was much more aligned with Russia than his successor, Poroshenko, but he was still a man who had greedily captured Soviet Ukraine's assets. The far-right Banderites are just the enforcement arm of fascist Ukrainian oligarchy. I suspect that (fascist) European oligarchs support Ukraine so zealously because they are kin to fascist Ukrainian oligarchs.
Thank you so much for your support!
Warm regards, Christian
Thanks from Belgium 🇧🇪
RAND Corp = US Empire Scumbag propagandists.
**Overextending and Unbalancing Russia**
Assessing the Impact of Cost-Imposing Options
James Dobbins, Raphael S. Cohen, Nathan Chandler, Bryan Frederick, Edward Geist, Paul DeLuca, Forrest E. Morgan, Howard J. Shatz, Brent Williams
Research SummaryPublished Apr 24, 2019
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html
Glad to see SOME Rand writers and articles are realistic. However the Pentagon and MIC prefer analyses like the one discussed here: https://original.antiwar.com/rick_sterling/2022/03/27/rand-report-prescribed-us-provocations-against-russia-and-predicted-russia-might-retaliate-in-ukraine/
You're a moron. And a commie lover.
No, when Russia was down on its back from 1989-2008 it was not aggressive. But now it is, and wants to reassert direct dominance over its northeast European neighbors and indirect dominance through its nuclear threat over the rest of the European continent.
LOL!!! Thanks for the joke. Thanks for the laugh! Cheers and have a great day (May Day!). :-)
Commie tratior
They have learned nothing, and they have forgotten nothing.
Patrick,
What if there is something truly deep in the psyche about all of this?
Consider that populations have been migrating West since pretty much it was Neanderthals Cro-Magnons and Homo Sapians. The original European populations are the Celts and they are pushed up against the Western fringes and shores. The languages are "Indo-European." Aryan apparently goes back to Iran.
In more recent times, it's Huns, Mongols, even Rus.
Why?
My theory is that as Europe is geographically broken up into various moderate sized regions, that are significantly the basis of the cultures and states comprising it, that it has created a situation where their various animosities could be sustained and contained along clear lines.
Western Asia, on the other hand, is far more open. So the peoples there developed far more fluid relationships, as well as demographically larger societies. So that Russia today can function as one country in a way that the EU can only dream about. So having those larger demographics, the inclination was to adventure West.
So not only is there that instinctive fear of Hordes from the East, but that boogieman keeps them from fighting among themselves as much.